Posted By: Stevie Caldarola

Last week, we asked you this question: Do we need women targeted beer marketing campaigns? What is the right way to target women, if at all?  The conversation was spurred off of our @LadiesOCB Twitter account, in which @BacklashBeer sent us a link to the Chick Beer website asking us what we thought of the product.  The result?…

…a massive online discussion over multiple social media platforms that lasted through the entire day.

The conversation was, at times, a heated debate, at other times, an enlightening look into the female (and male) psyche, and on top of all that, a passionate cry for higher standards.

Below, I try to do my best to gather all of the comments and suggestions into one collective train of thought with the hopes of keeping this discussion alive.  Already said your thoughts on the topic at hand? What do you think of the overall comments from last Friday?  Haven’t gotten to comment yet? Leave your thoughts in the comment section below, find us on Facebook or on Twitter as @LadiesOCB, or comment on LinkedIn or Google+. As women are getting more and more involved in the craft beer industry and community, this topic is becoming more and more relevant to both genders.  Breweries- are you paying attention?

[Editor's Note: Please be warned, there may be some harsh language used in this posting.  All photos below were found via Google Image Search]

Do we need women targeting beer marketing campaigns?  What is the right way to target women, if at all? What do you think of Chick Beer’s campaign? Have you seen any women geared campaigns that work for you?

From the Ladiesocb.com post:

Novelty and gimmicks only work for so long, if at all – Leah, She Likes Beer

Leah: Isn’t marketing specifically to women, especially with products that are basically a domestic light with some glitter thrown on it, is just the flip of the “beer is a man’s drink” macro advertising we’re used to. Its still exclusionary. Shouldn’t the point of advertising beer be promoting the product as a superior product to the ENTIRE beer community? Novelty and gimmicks only work for so long, if at all. At the end of the day success is based on universal appeal and longevity of a quality product.

I think that events that are for women only are fun ways to get together with other beer-loving (or beer-curious) women to share in our love of craft beer… but I think that’s the extent to which I would want to be separated out, in terms of gender. -Genevieve, The Hops Honey

Remember her?

TheHopsHoney says: While I appreciate the idea of beer producers including women – who were, at one point, not seen as beer drinkers – in their marketing, it now feels like a bit of a slap in the face… Women in beer, both from the producer and consumer standpoints, have come SO far, and are a huge part of the playing field at this point. My gender should have nothing to do with my appreciation for and love of craft beer, and I (and all women) should have the opportunity to explore craft beer just as anyone would, without someone stepping in and suggesting that I will “like” one particular beer over another simply because of my gender. My palate, and my ability to determine those flavors and profiles that I like best is the same as a man’s. In terms of women-geared campaigns that would appeal? I think that events that are for women only are fun ways to get together with other beer-loving (or beer-curious) women to share in our love of craft beer… but I think that’s the extent to which I would want to be separated out, in terms of gender.

Why shouldn’t we embrace groups that focus on women in the craft beer community?… Just as any other group that markets so called “men’s activities” to women; have groups like Ladies of Craft beer as a comfortable forum, to learn, to talk, and to educate ourselves about beer without the interference of men who may or may not think we belong. – MSDavis

Is this better?

MSDavis says: As a woman who has been a craft beer drinker for many years now I find myself both agreeing with and disagreeing with the idea that marketing should be directed at women. Most female targeted marketing (and even brewing) leaves a bad taste in my mouth, similar to the skunky, flavorless beer typically marketed to us. However I would like to see more women as beer drinkers, and not just beer drinkers but drinkers of QUALITY beer. So, where I’ve found myself in securely in the “education directed at women camp.” Just like there are clubs that focus on women participating in other “typically male” pursuits, why not beer drinking; Why shouldn’t we embrace groups that focus on women in the craft beer community?

What we have to be careful of is not talking down to women, not suggesting that we drink only fruity or light beer. Not using words that many women find sexist, etc. So to sum up: Just as any other group that markets so called “men’s activities” to women; have groups like Ladies of Craft beer as a comfortable forum, to learn, to talk, and to educate ourselves about beer without the interference of men who may or may not think we belong.

Pink & Hello Kitty... yikes?

Oh, and as a side note, I am vaguely offended by Chickbeer and would be loathe to try it. I find the description insulting, the concept shallow and silly. (and frankly difficult to believe it was truly devised by a woman) The reason I have zero interest in trying it is because it is exactly the opposite of any flavors in beer I prefer. I like the hops and bitterness, I enjoy a rich beer with some depth and complexity (and *gasp* calories). That being said, if it sells, then good for them I won’t begrudge them a successful business plan.

Nellie Sanchis says: I feel as though it’s a non-issue for those of us who have already found our preferred flavor profiles with quality beer. As women increase their presence in the world of craft beer, products like this are inevitably going to surface, but it’s how we choose to view them that really matters. We need to remember that at the end of the day, whether you’re knocking back a Chick Beer or a Stone IPA, all advertising has an agenda; it’s whether we allow ourselves to buy into it shapes our identity as consumers.

Art or patronizing?

From Google+:

 It’s getting brand recognition, but that does not necessarily mean marketing….the key is to get the craft beer into bars and stores… -Sean Murtagh

Jason Rust: This is just as stupid as Moonshot. It’s really no different than what we loathe in AB and MillerCoors. It’s a marketing scheme, not a serious beer.

Sean Murtagh: Its getting brand recognition, but that does not necessarily mean marketing….the key is to get the craft beer into bars and stores…..

From Facebook: 

Jenny Hawkins: Honestly I’m a bit offended. Maybe instead they should just target us like they do the male audience and show us dudes in speedos sucking down a cold one. Sheesh. Marketing assholes.

Shannon McNair: I’m mostly depressed because I will now get this for Christmas because “I know that you like beer”

Actually, to me, that commercial [where Bud Light is made into a house] is already geared towards women in the sense that Bud Light is saying, “Hey ladies, we know you are the ones who are able to see big picture and the men can’t see past the beer. – Arwen Lehman

Would this be okay if it was toned men painted with beer labels?

Arwen Lehman: My issue with the concept behind “marketing beer to women” is where it is actually executed. What would constitute marketing to women? I think specifically, we must look at how beer is being marketed in general. Is it considered being marketed to men, simply because it is a man in a house made out of beer bottles vs. a woman in her closet? If you look at the Bud Light House commercial carefully (youtube has it) you will notice that the men are actually portrayed as bimbo’s who only care about the cold beer where it is the woman at the beginning of the commercial who is paying attention to the bigger picture of the house made of beer from a sustainability standpoint of what she thought was recycled cans at first. Actually, to me that commercial is already geared towards women in the sense that Bud Light is saying, “hey ladies, we know you are the ones who are able to see big picture and the men can’t see past the beer.”

Phew! Sorry for the long-winded response but it is such an interesting topic to me. I mean, going back to what defines marketing to women. If a beer was labeled in pink and played a Dido song in the background, would that make it geared toward women? I don’t know if that is the right answer and certainly segregating beer marketing is not the solution to me. What I think needs to happen is that the folks with the marketing dollars for beer shouldn’t gear towards one sex or the other, they should make their marketing stretch further by simply going unisex. I hate to use another big name but Corona does this quite well. And while it may not be as “manly” as bud light, I can say I know A TON of men who drink it!

Did they get it right?

Jenny Beth Hagen: How would you market to women? With the premise that “to women, a man in a business suit, is like a woman in lingerie to a man”, what would you do? Something similar to stella commercials? Or, to the SUPER low cal beers, beer has next to nothing in calories? To my lady friends that drink light beer, they complain my beer makes them full or bloated, it’s more of a rational discussion of not needing/wanting/drinking as much, not marketing campaigns. So, I guess my position is not at all.

Channing Herrin: I’m not a woman, and I find it insulting. Then again, I’ve always been insulted and annoyed by the big 3′s frat boy sterotype marketing they do. I know plenty of women who will drink a Rogue Choc Stout, or NB La Folie, etc. I understand going after a niche market share, but this just bothers me. Besides, the product they’re offering, is already made by AB-Inbev/Miller-Coors.

Devin Bell: Hahaha, I know some girls that are going to be pissed.

Just... ouch

Alex Fields: I think it’s a good idea to think about how marketing and brewery images can be changed to be more appealing to women, but “targeting women” by making stupid, over the top girly beers like this is the wrong way to go about it.

Lindsey Bonadonna: o.m.g I am SO offended by that. Calories? Who cares! bring on a big ass 650ml of Bourbon County ; )

Sean Evan Smith: this is beyond stupid. When you can’t sell a beer based on flavor and quality, you resort to gimmicky marketing for stupid people.

Why don’t they call out what charities they donate to? It seems a bit shady… – Stevie Caldarola

Shayna O’Kelley: What. the. frak. is. THIS! I forgot, we only drink light, tasteless, crappy beer and only if it has less than 100 calories. So what if they donate to charity? Give me heavy, high calorie, gloriously dark beer and I’ll give money to charity myself.

David Sakolsky: Closed in 2012 after reporting they were only being sold for frat boys to give as gifts to other frat boys.

Jennifer O’Connell: I am insulted.

Patio O’Connell: Alright Jenny!…I’m glad you looked at this. I knew you’d react this way. How about marketing beer to beer drinkers? Or is that too difficult…

Stevie Caldarola: Why don’t they call out what charities they donate to? It seems a bit shady…

Is this too "butch"?

Lesley Singletary: as obnoxious as this chick beer is, it provides the perfect response timing. Beer lovers and their social media could use this to highlight their women brewers/beer lovers so as to show that not all good beer drinkers are men and how many more women are getting involved in the craft beer world!

Daniel Bradford: seems to have the premise backwards. we’re working to build a beer culture that’s about the qualities of the beverage not how to fit a discrete segment. it’s all about beer, not what do I need to do to sell to a unique demographic.

Monk’s Homebrew: Well said…

LaFemme de Beer: i agree. i suggest beers based on specific folks’ tastes but we never brew for a demographic (is that even possible?!) and we never seLL to a demographic. good beer makes good friends. i can usually hook some newbie up with a WoW beer. and i don’t charge extra for epiphanies. YeT. :0)

At first I thought it was a joke. A joke that wasn’t very funny… -Garrett Oliver

Garrett Oliver: Wow…perhaps I’m not the right person to comment upon it, but that looks spectacularly patronizing and insulting to me. At first I thought it was a joke. A joke that wasn’t very funny.

Is Narragansett's ad too racy?

Jeff Cioletti: Their own marketing verbiage suggests how ridiculously unnecessary such a product is. If women already drink 25% of the beer in the US (and that number is climbing without the help of such offensively patronizing products), then they really don’t need a beer specifically targeted to them, do they? They seem to like what’s available just fine. And the fact that the number is only 25% and not 50% or more is thanks to all the billions of dollars the macros have spent for more than half a century targeting men exclusively.

Bon Beer: Just what the world needs..another light beer… and with a pink label no less! Cut me a break!This is definitely insulting.

Jessica A. Miller: It has lesiban themes

Craft Beer: I would never think of marketing to just one group. Consumers know what they want based on value, style and price…

At least it's for non-alcoholic beer, right?

TasteofBrews Adm: That’s a scary beer

Craig Borden: My observation is that women are much more inclined to drink wine than beer. They say it is less filling and that they won’t get fat. I truly would appreciate more female beer drinkers so marketing to them and touting that anything in moderation is ok for their waistline would be applauded by myself. You can also recommend an order of beers that would eventually be a stepping stone to adjust their palette to some of the more robust beers that a non-craft beer drinker may simply spit out. Obviously this path to beer nirvana can be used to men, that is if they want to start off with fruity floral beers…

Via Email:

Ginger Johnson of Women Enjoying Beer says: ”The point is not to chickify/pinkify or otherwise pander to stereotypical (and inaccurate for many) women. WEB research clearly states that women think pink = Barbie, Breast Cancer and Victoria Secret. We’re not going to make any progress, either side of the street, by colorizing products.

The Key is this: you have to know who your market is. You market differently to women than you do men. Period. Do men’s product use baby blue to sell them? Do you think men would respond to them is they did?

That last comment for now – is the label: Chick. Really?? Do we want to continue to denigrate women to try to ‘get ahead’. Just like Gloria Steinham didn’t take Virginia Slims’ ad money when she launched Ms. Magazine (‘You’ve Come A Long Way, Baby’), this product sets the beer progress for women back, not forward. It’s not about what you think as the manufacturer either. It’s about your consumer.”

Funny or offensive?

From @LadiesOCB Twitter: [Editor's Note: due to the vast amount of tweets, this is a selection from this conversation]

Brewess: It is sexist and disappointing.(we are trying to combat sexism,no?)

HopGoddess76: Strong enough for a man but made for a woman. ; )… Doesn’t matter. I drink good beer so manipulative advertising is not an issue. : )

johnnewhouse: how about attractive men in bikinis? it works for AB and MC

whatchulooknat: As a beer loving woman, yes please! If left to my husband we would have keystone light, yuck!! I want something refreshing!  show me a fat guy in a stained wifebeater shirt with keystone in his hand, then show me a hot man drinking your beer

jessicamerritt: looks like it’s being brewed at Minhas in WI chickbeer.com/distributors

I don’t need a side of condescension with my beverage, thanks. -@ladysoleil

ladysoleil: I don’t need a side of condescension with my beverage, thanks.  And the “women don’t like hops” thing? Utter crap.  The craziest hophead I know is a woman: @angelsil_to No IBU is too high for her.

Ah, commercials...

Shelikezbeer: Funny that about says she was looking for an “interesting” beer & produced a bland sounding product

lucybeercook: [the right way to market beer to women is] listening to women pro brewers talking about beer

bmljenny: I think the idea of a beer for women is dumb. What I would like to see is more good stuff in smaller bottles.

flowery_air: [proper beer marketing for women would include] more grassroots recognition of women in the community? presence in #beer events? social groups? Are there any “groups” where us beer ladies can set up events, discuss, etc? We’re all here, we just have to unify!

Did Karmi get it right?

angelsil_to: Advertisers don’t need to target #beer to women, that niche is filled by wine coolers and Macro lime crap #realwomendrinkipa

jesshunter: wait… so I should stop drinking this Zima? #realwomendrinkipa

DenverBartender: a lil rose blended w/ zima would make great spritzer

ladysoleil: @jesshunter: Drop the Mike’s Hard Iced Tea and we’ll let you go with a warning. #realwomendrinkipa

ChefNABottle: the funny thing is they claim it [Chick Beer] has “beer cred” ha!

Would you prefer this tee...

stobol: The whole Chick Beer thing is gross. Loving beer means many styles, not just drinking a “light lager” as a woman

maeliesnow: That’s just another example of bad advertisements geared towards women. Either you like good beer, or you don’t. Plain and simple

ladysoleil: Kidding aside though, what beers to suggest for people who “don’t like beer? I’ve had luck w/Harpoon Raspberry.

angelsil_to: I’ve had success with Witbiers, craft Cider and Mead and Lambics.

bmljenny: for people who don’t like beer, I just suggest drinking something else. Leave the beer for the fans! a lot of bars that are beer-focused will have hard cider. That’s a nice alternative and not too cringeworthy

jesshunter: GD’s Colette or Wild Raspberry Ale, generally. Depends what they usually like to drink, if it’s wine, then I point them to Sours

...or this tee?

mklinger421: Allagash White isn’t a bad starter beer, IMHO. Light, not too bitter, but still has taste.

wicked_neat: dry and not hoppy: kolsch, hefeweizen

Shelikezbeer: I find porters work

BuzzedandBubbly: Blue Moon or Wachusett bberry

seattlekim: We’ve had luck introducing people via lighter Belgian styles like Wit and Saison. (Less bitter.)

stephaniekays: Lindemans framboise (most lambics really)

jessicamerritt: Avery White Rascal…for Blue Moon lovers. Several converts.

Beercouple: Saisons have been a pretty good bet in my experience. Also, I haven’t met a girl yet who hasn’t liked Chimay White.

I’d say it’s a step backwards. Out of 88 members in my BeerClub over 20 are women, & zero would be into this. -@PiasansBeer

Was this ad meant for a woman?

Meagie23: Lost Coast Tangerine Wheat. Abita Purple Haze Raspberry wheat. Lindemans Raspberry Frambroise

teecer: @Meagie23 Lost Coast Tangerine Wheat is the ONLY #craftbeer that my lager-loving dad will go out of his way to drink!

HalfwayCafe: In the Fall, Shipyard’s Pumpkinhead Ale with a cinnamon & sugar rimmer is always a hit!

jessicaorndorff: Chocolate stouts/coffee porters

MargaritaC: I think hefeweizen’s and some summer ales are a good intro beers. Oh & I highly recommend @magichatwacko! Im hooked!

gandalfcat: Pyramid Apricot ale or Hangar 24 Orange wheat in CA RT

lakeline: Leipziger Gose? It is sour but mild and has a lemonade-ish feel.

MelodeeSharp: I’ve converted many wine/non beer drinkers with @greenflashbeer Trippel or Summer Saison!

Sexist? Or cute play on beer styles?

JulieHerd: Why do people continue to think all women are trite airheads who want ‘something that won’t make me feel bloaty’? I’d offer an amendment of #realwomendrinkALE because there’s so much more than just IPA!!

shieldsy: The way I see it @chickbrewing perpetuates the worst attitudes prevalent in #beer -It’s @LadiesOCB who speak for real women in beer

PiasansBeer: I’d say it’s a step backwards. Out of 88 members in my BeerClub over 20 are women, & zero would be into this.

sassypastor: Just target people who like beer…

Beer tastings, beer dinners & beer fests are best way, IMO, to introduce new beer to women. Marketing based on stereotypes=nope. -@sarahcarrlaw

emilyengdahl:  *need* ? no… what we need are educated ladies who buck the idea that they don’t know or can’t enjoy #craftbeer. #Educate #share  I took a look at that Chick site, and frankly, I’d steer clear of it BECAUSE it’s marketed like that.

This issue dates back pretty far

swbnhoptips : I dont think Chick beer is the answer. My gf orders more stouts than I do when we’re out.

TheOnlyCafe: I just sold a @stbcbeer 2xIPA to a woman who was in the mood. bullshit marketing is getting in the way of #craftbeer

sarahcarrlaw : Beer tastings, beer dinners & beer fests are best way, IMO, to introduce new beer to women. Marketing based on stereotypes=nope.

hopheadheath : @sarahcarrlaw totally agree. A fun, positive environment w friends is the best way to discover new beer for anyone.

buffalobrewblog: I honestly don’t think that men and women who drink beer are much different..it’s just that many women don’t drink it and  never will because it’s not “classy” like wine

BasicallyRed: @buffalobrewblog #craftbeer can be very classy… it’s just the stereotype that comes with not being educated about it

buffalobrewblog: right..and beer has the male stereotype but I don’t see any marketing campaign changing that

Will a strong female celebrity presence help?

TrulyChes: I love beer and don’t want it froofy and gender-role enforcing.

brewniversal : dudebeer.com is totally legit however.

kgs: there’s a whole “marketing to women” thing that isn’t about PINK or RUFFLES. More about portions.

beerbabe:  just reading the “chickbeer” site. I feel kinda defeated. This is *not* what I’ve/we’ve been asking for!! Maybe we need to come up w/a joint “female craft beer drinker manifesto” a la “i am a craft beer drinker” to put this to rest.

emilyengdahl: I think the more integrated women are with beer, the less we need “women specific” *in* beer. Less focus on negative.

Lastly, here are two follow-up posts that came about due to our conversation.  The first is from @BacklashMaggie, and the second is from @_Danicia_.

~~~~~

What have I learned from all of this?  

Ladies- get out there, get talking, and get active.  

Related Posts:

• Vicki Stowe – Brewmaster (Part 32)
• Women in Beer Series – Kelly McKnight
• Slate.com – The Hops Ceiling
• Interview with Randy Mosher about Women and Beer (Guest post by Ingrid Calderoni)
• This Mother’s Day Celebrate The First Beer Brewers – Women